(no subject)

[charliesmum]

slammerkinbabe posted this article on her journal, and I started a comment, but then decided it would be better to rant in my own journal.

Okay, here's the thing about feminism. Men seem to think it means 'treat women like a man in a dress' but that isn't the case. I think feminism is all about having the choice. sixty-odd years ago a woman really didn't have a big choice. Some woman had careers, but it would have been perfectly acceptable to fire her if she got married. I worked with a woman who got married during the Great Depression, and they had to keep their marriage a secret because she had a good job and he didn't, and she would have lost her job had they known she was married. Today, fortunately, if a woman has talent in a position, she is, mostly, able to pursue that career, and won't have to give it up if she gets married or has children. The nice thing is, a woman can choose to give up her career to be a housewife, if she so desires. I really think all we wanted was a choice.

Then there's this paragraph:

The day men and women have the same level of power is the also the day when chivalry dies. Many women enjoy visiting bars and having men buy them drinks in exchange for a casual conversation. It seems that after all the work women put into getting ready for a night out, they won't compromise their ability to get free alcohol for the sake of self-independence.

I think women can be equal and still accept a drink if it is offered to her, and second, who says we go out to make 'causual conversation' with a guy. Maybe we just want to hang with our girlfriends and make fun of other people's outfits. You don't know.

The implication this boy is making is that we can't be girls and be feminists. Dude. being a feminist does not mean giving up everything feminine.

And anyway, real equality won't really happen until commercials featuring things like what to cook for dinner and which brand of detergent to use stars a man.

Comments

[erinlin.livejournal.com]

Wow, what a wanker. He clearly doesn't understand the concept of "male privilege"

[lietya.livejournal.com]

The day chivalry dies is the day I hop up and down with joy. These days, at least, "chivalry" is just barely veiled patronization; yes, goddammit, I WILL give up free drinks if it means you treat me like a human being first and a pair of tits after.

I heartily endorse your definition of feminism, too. It frustrates me that so many people - some of them female - want to believe that "feminism" comes with a set of rules about how you *must* behave, rather than merely being the opportunity for choice.

[http://users.livejournal.com/butter_cup_/]

Grrrr. If I didn't have to leave a phone number, I would have responded to the original article. Since I won't reply there, I'll reply here.

Dear Skippy,

Aren't you just the most precious little misogynist ever? I have to admit, your adolescent priorities, and sweeping generalizations about both genders brought a smile to my face. As a veteran adult, I've learned to find amusement in the arrogance of youth.

First darling, if given a choice between bringing home 25% more in their weekly paycheck and having a fine young man like yourself buy her a drink, I'm guessing that a fair number of women would take the money and buy their own drink. I'm going to let you in on a little secret, women pay for those free drinks. You see, some men feel that the price of a drink entitles them to a woman's attention -- the price of a dinner entitles them to a woman's affection. Some women may be willing to enter into this social bartering, others are not. The ones who aren't won't be the least bit disappointed with the brave new feminist world that your angst about in your article.

Fear not, grasshopper. The feminism induced social Armageddon you dread will not come to pass. I'm a feminist and so is my husband. We've raised four feminist children (three girls and a boy), and you'll be happy to know that our children are successful and happy. They've had the advantage of BOTH parents nurturing them since the day they were born -- a vast improvement over the absent father model of the past. And lest you think that my husband has sacrificed his masculinity to feminism, he was a heavyweight boxing champion in the Navy, played semi-professional football well into his forties, and still plays ice hockey. Manly enough for you? Oh, and I'm guessing he gets laid quite a bit more often than you do too. Equal partnership in the bedroom is anything but boring.

You seem to be very fixated on opening doors and what not. I have to say, I thought this old chestnut went out of style in the seventies, right along with "OH MY GOD, WE'LL ALL HAVE TO USE THE SAME BATHROOMS!" I don't know where you live, but here in Philly we have a store called Wawa. It's the happiest place on earth. The food is good, the staff is helpful and pleasant, and the customers are all polite to one another. Whomever is at the door first holds it open for the person behind them. Gender doesn't enter into the equation. Doesn't that sound lovely? When your hands are full of the best coffee on the planet and a delicious muffin, you can thank feminism when a smiling woman holds the door open for you. Feminism isn't just about making things better for women; it's about making things better for everyone.

Finally Skippy dear, my daughters are drop dead gorgeous. One day you may run into them at a bar and want to chat them up. A word of advice -- a beer isn't going to impress my girls. You may want to take the initiative and actually show some interest in them. You know, approach them and say something like, "Aren't you on the basketball team? Is it hard balancing sports and premed?" I guarantee you, that will work much better than buying them a drink and going on and on about yourself, or God forbid, your views on how they'd be so much happier without equality.

Good Luck, Skippy. You'll need it.

Fondly,

Buttercup

[fourthage.livejournal.com]

Do what I do. 202-456-1414. White House switchboard number. I give that number out to anybody who doesn't need it. 'Cause that's a great reply and you should send it to the author.

[crossbow1.livejournal.com]

Grrrr. If I didn't have to leave a phone number, I would have responded to the original article. Since I won't reply there, I'll reply here.

I bit the bullet and replied there, but only to one of his stuid examples.

[chavvah.livejournal.com]

Sometimes the best way to fight back is with humour, don't you think?

[sixth-light.livejournal.com]

It's people like this who spent the last election campaign in my country insulting the PM (see icon) for being...not pretty. The fact that most of the male party leaders look like kissing cousins to chimpanzees is, of course, completely beside the point. Women must be pretty to do any job, or they can't do it properly. Since she isn't pretty, she must be a lesbian, and her thirty-year marriage is a sham. The opposition leader's decision to commit adultery with and later marry his younger secretary is, on the other hand, an example of fine upstanding morals.

Fortunately, she's still the prime minister, and Don "I can't raise my voice to her during debates, she's a woman" Brash is still the Leader of the Opposition, with lots of knives at his back. Sometimes, the world is just.

Besides - who said a lesbian cabal running the country was a bad thing?

[erynnef.livejournal.com]

I got out and get free drinks. But that's because my friends and I are cute. I dont even exchange conversation with half the men that buy drinks for us. Sounds bad, but, I dont need to. (Mainly because they are trying to pick up one of my friends) I'll be married, and I dont need some man trying to pick me up at a bar. But, Ill gladly take his money, only because I am a greedy bitch.


And I make fun of other people's outfits. You would be surprised what the female populous thinks is kosher here in South Jersey - specially at Adelphia's.

Holler.

[wolfma.livejournal.com]

A-effing-men!

I'll add to what you said: fifty years ago, a college woman had to be in her dorm by eight o'clock, lights out at midnight, period, or she was expelled. There were no exceptions.

Eliminating that kind of double standard is what feminism is all about.

[fourthage.livejournal.com]

Men seem to think it means 'treat women like a man in a dress' but that isn't the case.

No, because not only does that still assume "man" as the default, but as the only sex that deserves respect. Sorry, please try again.

I've been really touchy about this lately, not the least because one of my classmates in Letters of Paul is a very subtle misogynist and I can't call him on it without completely derailing the class.

[hihankara.livejournal.com]

Since when is letting someone DO SOMETHING NICE FOR YOU somehow equivalent to prostitution? Or compromising your principles or your dignity? I open doors for people, and let people open them for me. I buy men dinner when I want to be nice to them, and let them buy it for me.

Its what friends do. No matter their gender.

*sighs*

Sometimes I just want to move to a cave. :)

[crossbow1.livejournal.com]

Chivalry?

Why is it men always rush ahead to open the door for me when it's really awkward, but they NEVER EVER EVER open the door for me when I actually need them to, like having my hands full? Once I had to go around with both wrists in splints for three months, and it was really hard to open doors, and not ONCE did a man open one for me. They only open doors for me if I'm dressed up. That's not chivalry, that's just trying to get laid.

having men buy them drinks in exchange for a casual conversation

In what way is THAT chivalry?

A) He makes it sound like prostitution.

B) It's never casual conversation. Men only do that if they're trying to get in your pants.

[jessii-6.livejournal.com]

oh my.I had to stop in middle of reading that thing because it was irritating me so much.
All these stereotypical generalizations of women are more than annoying.

We don't want - or need - horny idiots buying drinks for us, especially when they think we owe them something afterwards.
We really can do without the macho ego of the 'protecting guy who walks us home' as well.
We can perfectly well pay for our own lunches (split on first date and buy in turns from then onward is what I do). I don't see how that would make love awkward.
There is nothing wrong with the woman proposing and in exchanging rings (that's what most people I know do/did) - or maybe the man doesn't need a ring so he can freely flirt with the first cute girl he sees?
In a fair world, both men and women would have rifles in hand *yawn* this is truly stupid. There are plenty of women who are fighters. Most of them don't get the CHANCE to do it - not unable to. Not to mention that not all men are big Rambos either.
Comparatively fewer women than men work grueling hours on the assembly line really? Maybe if more men would take a maternity leave or tend to the children it would be about the same rate?
females develop an inherent relationship with their young ... childhood memories involve, not our father, but our mother. again, in a normal family it should involve both.

Of course by that dafinition I must be a butch, right? Of course, as far as I'm concerned, this type of attitude might as well think that. Who would want to date an idiot anyway.

I'm with you, obviously.
It just sometimes seems that no matter how much we move forward, there's always the big mouthed lagging idiots out there.

[jessii-6.livejournal.com]

PPS
Before cooking commercials start featuring men, we need *any* commercial for *anything* to stop using half naked/sexually suggestive women to sell anything from underwear through washing powders to air-conditioners