(no subject)

[charliesmum]

Remember back in June there was the story about Zach, a boy who came out to his parents and they sent him to "Love in Action", brainwashing camp to un-gay him? There was a thing on CNN this morning (there's a television in the lobby of our building) about the 'camp'. It was interesting - they talked to one boy who went there and discovered his own faith, and realised he could reconcile being Christian with being gay. My favorite line was when they said he attended church with his boyfriend.

The other guy the interviewed felt it helped him and believes he has 'enough' of an attraction to women that he could marry and have kids, but if not celebacy is a option. Boy, his future wife has a life of passion to look forward to, dosen't she?

I checked Zach's blog, he doesn't seem to be back now, but there are something like 2,000 comments on it now.

I'm still trying to understand the parents of Zach. I can't imagine not loving my son enough to accept him for what he is, but I think they must just be really scared. They have their beliefs, and unfortunately they believe that their son is wrong, and they want him to be right. No parent wants their child to have a difficult life. Still, I'm sorry for them. No matter what happens, they've lost their son.

Comments

[zoepaleologa.livejournal.com]

The sexuality is immaterial. I always liken it to talking to a stranger you meet who you find amusing and would like to know better - as a person in a non-sexual way. You discover he/she is homosexual. Does that somehow make them less interesting, does it make them not amusing?

And as a parent, there are a lot worse things could happen to my child than her outing herself as gay. I mean I'd imagine most parents who loses a child would tell you that having a gay child is not the worst thing that could befall you. Not by a long way.

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's what I think. Who my son does or doesn't sleep with is immaterial as long as he's healthy, happy and loves his mommy. :)

There was this tv documentary that followed 6 gay couples as they had committment ceremonies, and in one episode the father of one of the men stood up at the wedding and welcomed his son's partner to the family, and said you are both my sons now, and I thought that was the nicest thing ever.

[wolfma.livejournal.com]

The sexuality is immaterial.

Exactly the way I think about it.

[wolfma.livejournal.com]

Pshaw. It's religious hysteria, pure and simple. It's the same kind that lead to the burning of heritics.

[ciara-belle.livejournal.com]

My favorite line was when they said he attended church with his boyfriend.

That's very awesome. I'm glad it had a good effect on at least one person.

[snarkypants.livejournal.com]

I love that kind of logic. If we can 'turn them straight,' they can get married to members of the opposite gender, and start churning out future tax- and tithe-payers babies.

What kind of hell is that for the spouse? And since this kind of repression usually doesn't involve telling a future spouse, "I'm formerly gay, but I've converted back to straightdom," that future spouse probably won't have the vaguest idea that s/he is not the person's first preference.

I hate to hear them talk about homosexuality as if it's a disease to be cured. And that, once 'cured,' the person is going to be a fabulous partner for straight marriage.

And when the 'cured' person gets to know him/herself better (in their 30s, say) and realizes that 'curing' homosexuality is a load of hogwash and that they're happily gay, what happens to their partner and children? And the 'cured' person feels guilt, the partner feels inadequate, and the kids are confused and messed up as hell.

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

Nicely said. That is exactly right.

[crossbow1.livejournal.com]

I suppose it's different if you really believe your kid could go to hell for being gay. I just have a really hard time believing that anyone could believe that. It's just insane.

[halcyon-sting.livejournal.com]

I have a really hard time believing that anyone could actually believe in "hell" being a place.

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

I have a really hard time believing that anyone could actually believe in "hell" being a place.

Hee. I've thought that, too. I sometimes think that's why the death penalty isn't nearly as much of a deterrent as it once was, because people don't really belive they're going to hell when they die.

[crossbow1.livejournal.com]

Me too.

[gunthera1.livejournal.com]

I saw you post in lietya's LJ and I came over to check out your journal. I hope that is ok.

I have an interesting point of view in all of this. I am a lesbian. My parents are Catholics (born in Poland so super-Catholic). After I came out we did not speak for about a year. Even now (6 years into my relationship with my partner) my family will still not acknowledge my partner. They will step into our house and ignore Kim. My mother will only speak Polish so that Kim is purposefully left out of the conversation. My mother prays for me and cries in front of me about my "problem". She clips wedding announcements of people that I went to school with and sends them to me. She explains how, by being gay, I have given up a real life. She says that no one will really ever love or accept me. If my parents had known about Exodus or any other type of ex-gay ministry... I would have been enrolled had I come out at 12 when I knew I was gay.

I understand where Zach is coming from and I feel for him. No one should have to deal with hatred in their own home. Maybe one day his parents will learn to love and accept him, but I doubt that will ever happen. Some people just do not have the capacity for that type of love. Even for their own children.

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

Hi! I don't mind you coming here. I like meeting new people!

I'm sorry that happened to you. I guess your mom is worried you are going to have an unhappy life - it's just too bad her fears are blinding her to the fact (and I'm guessing here) you have a happy life already.

I'm really lucky that my son has both a gay uncle and a best friend who has 2 mommies, because already to him it is commonplace. It's natural to him, and hopefully by the time he is old enough, it will be natural to everyone to accept people, no matter what their 'orientation' is.

[gunthera1.livejournal.com]

I live a very happy life. I live a very normal life as well. The only thing different is I am with a woman rather than a man.

I graduated from college, I found a job, I bought a house with my spouse, I have 2 cute kitties. All of these are things my mother said could never happen if I was gay. She believes that if someone is gay than all doors in life are blocked to them.

I think that not accepting differences in people is ridiculous. This world houses people of different colors, races, religions, disablities, sexual orientations, passions, skills, talents. Why can't we just see people as people and leave it at that.

I have 2 cousing that are adopted. They are latino and my aunt and uncle are very white. As a child I never even noticed that there was anything different about them until my mother pointed it out to me. Children need to be taught to hate and discriminate. It is not in their nature.

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

I'm glad for your. Really. What are your kitties' names? (I have one cat. He is called Butchie)

My son's best friend was adopted at aged 5 by two women, and they have given him, quite literally, the first loving home he's ever known. This is why I want to throw things at Rick Santorum, who wants to believe that somehow they are less of a family because neither of them have a penis.

[gunthera1.livejournal.com]

Santorum is insane! He also says in his book that poor people should not og to college and that all mothers MUST stay home with children. It is good if that is the choice women make, but you cannot say that they MUST make that choice or they are bad parents. He is crazy!

Our kitties are Sushi and Wasabi. Wasabi is the grey/silver one in the front of this icon and Sushi is the big black kitty hiding behind her.. can you see him? Sushi was adopted first and then Wasabi a year later. They are actually both the same age.

[charliesmum.livejournal.com]

that all mothers MUST stay home with children.

Yah. If Santorm wants to give me money so I can afford to stay home, I will! I'd love to be a stay at home mom. I just can't afford it.

I just went on your journal (because I'm nosy like that) - I love that wedding picture! You both look so happy.

Your kitties are so cute.

[gunthera1.livejournal.com]

I can't fault you for looking at my journal since I first poked around in your's :-)

His plan of all mothers staying home, no birth control, and poor individuals NOT going to college leaves us in a pretty scary world. He obviously lived life through the lense of a rich white man.

Thank you :-) I love that picture of us. It was a good day. Friends, family (well, Kim's family), a beautiful committment ceremony, dancing, and good food. Who could ask for more?

[snarkypants.livejournal.com]

The heck of it is, they (Santorum and his vile ilk) only want white, middle-class women to stay at home with their children. When poor women of color try to stay at home with their children, they're "Welfare Queens."

Interestingly enough, when black women received their freedom in this country after the Civil War, one of the freedoms they relished most was to be able to be at home with their children. "But...who's going to cook for us? Raise our kids? Do our laundry?...Lazy-*ss b*tches." And it's still that way.

Being a feminist, to me, means supporting women's choices, and supporting them when they don't have choices. If you have the means and desire to be a stay-at-home mother, I am genuinely happy for you, if occasionally envious.

If you have the means but not the desire, go to work with as free a conscience as you can manage.

I went back to work when my Ballerina was 6 weeks old, and although my decision was 90% motivated by dinero (or lack thereof), I also knew that I didn't have the desire/ability to be a stay-at-home mother.

Mothers are damned if they do and damned if they don't. SAHM's are told working mothers hate them. Working mothers are told that they are damaging their children.

All mothers are working mothers, regardless of whether they draw a paycheck.

< /rant>

[gunthera1.livejournal.com]

Santorum is just a crazy man that wants media attention. Surprisingly, rich white men agree with his crap.